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068 Breaking Gender Bias Thread by Thread

About this Episode

Sally Dear is the founder of Ducky Zebra, a childrenswear brand that challenges the outdated gender stereotypes found in high-street kids’ clothing. 

She was frustrated by the impact of gender stereotypes on her children. The language they were hearing, TV they were watching, games they were playing, and the clothes they were wearing, so she decided to tackle one of these areas, clothing, as a means to changing the narrative. 

During her early research she discovered the negative impact of the fashion industry on the world around us. It accounts for 10% of global carbon emissions and nearly 20% of wastewater. In the UK an estimated 350,000 tonnes of clothing ends up in landfill every year.

She decided to run a different sort of clothing brand. Ducky Zebra supports slow fashion; and are passionate about reducing their environmental impact, being ethical and transparent. 

She’s won competitions, and features, and is working to build this revolutionary brand into a household name.

We talked about:

  • Gender Stereotypes in Children
  • The conceptualisation of Ducky zebra
  • Business Growth and Challenges
  • Brand Impact and perspectives

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Episode Transcript

Katherine Ann Byam 0:03
Sally, welcome to where Ideas Launch.

Sally Dear 1:33
Thank you so much for having me. I'm delighted to be here.

Katherine Ann Byam 1:36
Really great to have you. I'm going to start with the big question, why gender stereotypes such a burning issue for you. Can you share that with our listeners today?

Sally Dear 1:45
Well, I think for me, it became a burning issue after I saw the negative impact it was having on my two children. And after that point, I did quite a lot of research. And I discovered that between the ages of two and five children become avid gender detectives. So they're looking for clues to make sense of the world around them. And they're like sponges, so they absorb things at lightning speed.

And that might include the colour code of pink for girls and blue for boys, the toy rules of dolls and parents for girls, and sports and cars for boys and the behaviour rules of kind, sweet and pretty girls, and strong, brave and confident boys. And research shows that by the time children are as young as six, they've already made sense of the world around them, and their place within it. And this can then go on to influence future choices and decisions, such as the subjects they choose their career paths, their salary, mental health, and behaviour.

 So not only do these stereotypes influence their decisions, and limit their opportunities, but also, for those children that don't fit within a stereotype, it can be very stressful. So as an example, if a boy really likes to colour pink, in our world of pink for girls, and blue for boys, that boy might feel very confused and isolated. And sadly, they might be teased by other children for not following the gender rules that they've learned. So with that research on top of the the impact I see it was having on my children, I became very passionate about trying to remove those restrictive stereotypes.

Katherine Ann Byam 3:37
It's incredible how powerful children develop these skills at such young ages. And you don't actually realise it until you hear something when they can actually verbalise what they were they're thinking and perceiving. And then you're like, Well, where did this come from?

Sally Dear 3:52
completely agree. Sometimes we're almost blind to it, because we've grown up without ourselves.

Katherine Ann Byam 3:59
Yeah, you're right. So you decided to start with clothing. But you don't necessarily have a background in fashion. So tell us a bit about Ducky Zebra, and the sort of conceptualization of the brand the products and why they matter.

Sally Dear 4:12
But you're right, so my background isn't in fashion. It's a marketing and predominantly for the automotive and rail sectors. Why Ducky Zebra? Well, at the age of four, my daughter mentioned she couldn't be a taxi driver when she was older because she was a girl. And it made me stop and see the world through her eyes. And I decided I wanted to do something about it.

 And originally, I wanted to do something that would help her and other girls be whoever and whatever they wanted to be. But during my research, I discovered things were just as bad if not worse for boys. And at that point, I decided I wanted to do something that would help girls and boys equally.

Why clothes? Well, clothes are often seen as an expression Have our identity. And yet from the point that we're born, our gender often dictates what we wear. With girls often wearing clothes that are pink, and pastel in colour with cute pretty images, magic, fairies focus on looks and beauty and messages of kindness but not necessarily confidence, while the clothes for boys are often blue sludgy, and colour with ferocious teeth bearing predators, messages of bravery and heroism.

And while there might be a focus on confidence, there's not necessarily a focus on kindness. So with Ducky Zebra, we've created unisex clothes that celebrate both kindness and confidence equally for girls and boys alike. And they're suitable for babies and children up to six years old. And we've had children involved with the designs themselves, which means they're really bright, colourful, and good fun. So we know the children wants to wear them. And we've also tried our very hardest to design the clothes and manufacture them in a way that is as sustainable as possible.

Katherine Ann Byam 6:11
That's great. I remember when I was three or four years old, my mom dressed me up in this pink outfit, and I was like, I do not want to wear this I cried, cried and cried and cried until she switched me to the blue one. lasting memory!

So we hear and speak a lot about business models on this podcast in particular, because I like to explore something that I like to call the parallel of the business model and the impact model. So I'd like to ask a bit about your impact model as well. How have you set up your business to touch on the various sustainability interests that you have?

Sally Dear 6:48
This is such a good question. And sustainability has been important for Ducky Zebra from the very start, and it's one of our six core values. And I think maybe in order to answer your question, it makes sense to first look at what the business models like for the fashion industry typically. So it's one of multiple seasons, regular new shiny collections, fast production and low prices. And this forces pressure down onto the factories, onto the workers and onto the quality of the clothes. And it also creates a throwaway culture.

This isn't kind and it's not sustainable for the planet. So for Ducky Zebra we wanted to set up our business model differently. We do, of course, want to make money because we need to survive, and we want to grow. But it doesn't take priority over being kind to the people that make our clothes or to the planets. For us, we use the rethink, reuse, recycle and reduce framework. And that has really helped us. So by way of example, when we were looking at the fabric we wanted to use, we decided to use certified organic cotton to reduce our carbon emissions and our water waste. So the grown organic cotton requires up to 91% Less water compared to conventional cotton, and it admits up to 46% less emissions.

We also took a long time to carefully select our manufacturing partner. Now they're based in the south of India, and our values are really closely aligned. And they're continually looking for ways to rethink their processes in order to reduce that impact. As an example, currently, 50% of their power comes from solar energy, and soon as will be 85%. They also do things like harvest rainwater, which helps to say save the groundwater levels, and they recycle all wastewater. And then in terms of the clothes themselves and the designs we've used, we've really tried to prioritise longevity. And so they meet they're made from high quality fabric, they're designed to last and pass on to siblings and friends for reuse. And deciding is generous.

 And we have little features like roll up and roll down cuffs so that they can grow as the child grows. And by ensuring that they're durable. Their lifecycle can be extended, which again helps us to reduce our carbon water and waste footprints. We've also tried to ensure that our designs are timeless and unisex. So rather than adopting the latest trends or seasonal gimmicks, we're rethinking fashion for children. So we create small volumes of colourful unisex designs that can be reused regardless of the season or the agenda. If you don't have anyone to pass your old stock is ever close onto.

We have a pre loved programme which allows you to recycle your clothes by returning them to us and We then pass them on to the Oxford baby bank where they can be reused. We also work with a fantastic organisation called rap Cline's, who help upcycle any clothes that perhaps we can't pass on to somebody else, or were unable to sell. And they upcycle those into small little drawstring gift bags, which we can either pass on to customers or sell. So there are so many things that I could talk about. But I genuinely believe by being sustainable and trying to reduce our waste and impact, it opens up so many opportunities, and so many possibilities for being creative.

Katherine Ann Byam 10:39
And this is cool. And I want to tap into that a little bit if you can share a bit about the opportunities you've had, because of this lens that you've taken, but also some of the challenges you've faced in growing this business.

Sally Dear 10:52
So I mean, in terms of the opportunities, I touched upon wrap kinds, who are fantastic organisation, but they could see that with every and fashion industry, there is fabric waste. And together, we've looked at how we can reduce that waste by turning something that is ready to go into the bin into something that someone's going to really enjoy and love. And actually, so I've got a little pop up shop at the moment, and I sell these wrap kind bags. And they're fantastic size to keep like little distractions, if you're going out for a meal with your child, and you want to put a few activities into the bag to keep the child entertained, they're a great size for that. And the kids loved them. So it could have ended up in the bin.

 But instead, it's been loved and enjoyed in terms of the challenges. Well, I developed and launched ducky zebra, during the pandemic. And I would say without a doubt, that's been one of the biggest challenges. So like working on the designs while freelancing to raise funds, while homeschooling my two kids, and I was the manufacturing was delayed by around six months. And I had a very good relationship with the factory, and I wanted to remain loyal to them.

But I would say the fact that we were on opposite sides of the world at that point was definitely a challenge. And when we were coming out of lockdowns, they were going into them, the pandemic has definitely thrown a few challenges away. And then I'd say since launching, I have two kind of key daily challenges, which is raising awareness on a limited budget. And then I'm sure you experienced this yourself the constant juggling of competing priorities, and wearing multiple hats from one minute to the next. And particularly because a purpose led brands was sustainability at the heart, there is always more that we could be doing.

Katherine Ann Byam 13:05
Well, that's definitely takes a toll on you emotionally as well, the decision fatigue, because we have to review so many details. And you know, sometimes you have to to compensate to sacrifice some things that you really care about other things that you care about more. And it takes its toll. Right.

Sally Dear 13:25
I completely agree with you. There is that emotional drain? And because we're passionate about what we do, sometimes it is hard to make those compromises like you said, as well.

Katherine Ann Byam 13:36
Yeah, absolutely. So what would you say have been the keys to your success in this venture so far?

Sally Dear 13:45
I'd say. At the very beginning, before I started to do anything, I conducted research, and I managed to speak to over 1000, carers and parents. And I think that was invaluable. It highlighted a number of common problems and themes, which I was then able to start to address with my clothing and with the business. And I think doing that research before I created a solution has really helped. And the research also helped to crystallise my six core values.

So before I did anything, I had a good idea of the problem and the themes and trends. And I also have my six values. And that's helps to guide the products, our content and articles, our marketing and social media, and also the audience that I'm trying to reach. So I'd say that's been really valuable. And then I would also say being flexible and adapting to change and being open to trying new things and collaborating with new people, especially during the pandemic when there have been so many unknowns has really helps with our success as well.

Katherine Ann Byam 15:02
And well done for persevering through through it all and getting to this point. Thank you. How has the journey impacted your children? Oh,

Sally Dear 15:10
well, sadly, my daughter is now too big for our clothes. So it took me too long to launch and when she's upset about, but I really hope that I'm being a positive role model to her. And as for my son, Eli, he loves the clothes, he proudly wears them. And inside each of the pockets, there's a little embroidered splash motif, which acts as a physical reminder for children to splash kindness and confidence.

And he loves rubbing the little embroidery and he doesn't have to wear a school uniform. So he loves to wear his duckies every trousers so that he can rub that at school. And I think he for him, the values of kindness and confidence really appeal. So aside from having a very busy and slightly stressed Mum, I'm hoping that it's had a positive impact on them.

Katherine Ann Byam 16:03
I get that, as a woman running a sustainable business, what advice do you have for people getting started today or thinking about it?

Sally Dear 16:11
I think it's great being a woman running and starting a sustainable business. I've been amazed at the fantastic network of people, yourself included that I've come across, and people are so open to collaborating and supporting one another. In terms of advice, I'd say Believe in yourself. Know what your purpose is, or the problem that you're solving.

 And stay true to that collaborate and connect with other like minded people, and in particular, other people that are at a similar stage in their business journey to you. And so I've been really fortunate and finding a number of people that I can speak to and share ideas with and learn from as well. Get used to working outside of your comfort zone because you can do it. And finally, have fun and enjoy yourself because you're going to be spending a lot of your day doing it. So you need to love it as well.

Katherine Ann Byam 17:12
Great advice. How can my listeners reach out and connect with your brand?

Unknown Speaker 17:17
Thank you so much for asking. I'd love to connect with you on our website, which is duckyzebra.com. Or through social media. Our handle is @duckyzebra. And we're active on Instagram, Facebook, LinkedIn, and Twitter.

Katherine Ann Byam 17:34
Really lovely to have you here and best wishes for the rest of 2022.

Sally Dear 17:38
Thank you so much Katherine.