About this Episode

Today, my guest is Karen Adams, founder and CEO of Kaia clothing. Karen made her first garment at the age of seven having grown up with a black and gold Singer sewing machine in her house. Watching fabric come to life in her mother's hands. She marvelled at how a flat piece of fabric could be transformed and engineered into 3d Clothes owned by the family. At 19. She started a small fashion business, she studied fashion design and fashion drawing at London central St. Martin School of Art. And later on, she chose the predictable and dependable roots of corporate retail immersing herself in the geekish side of merchandising and analysis. Clothing represents a return to her earliest passions with a desire to solve some of the sustainability challenges facing the industry in our lifetime.

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Connect with Karen

• Kaia Clothing Website

Episode Transcript

Katherine Ann Byam

Karen, welcome to Where Ideas Launch.

Karen Adams  1:33  

Thank you. It's great to be here.

Katherine Ann Byam  1:34  

Really great to have you. We share a bit of an origin story, both our parents were born in Trinidad and Tobago, can you share a little bit about how your Caribbean roots potentially influenced your worldview on inclusion and equality and all of these things that you've all there?

Karen Adams  1:50  

Sure. And I always am thrilled to meet someone from the land, you know, where my parents grew up from Trinidad and Tobago, and where I'm from the Trinidad and Tobago was very much alive to me, because my parents spoke about the place and the smell and the fruits and it felt like home even though I hadn't been there until I was about I think 10 years old. So we both spring from Trinidad and Tobago, and I do marvel that our experiences will be so different in that you lived in the majority, ethnically speaking. And I've always lived in the minority. So I always am, I always wonder about how that would have impacted my resilience and the many wounds that you inevitably acquire growing up in a sort of systemically racist environment for the most part, not always, and not in every way. But it's definitely there. And you definitely had to fend it off for your whole life. So I always marvel at what it might be like to be free from that. And at the same time you develop your own resilience. So as being a Brit, you do, you have to develop your own resilience and your identity and your ways of thriving in the world. But I love Trinidad and Tobago so much. I mean, I've been there, I've been there several times, it's home from home now. And you know, having this I've always regarded myself as dual heritage, or even try heritage because most of my mom's siblings went to the States. And so I have a very early experience of visiting there. And it's really served to increase my resilience, it's almost like I have additional vantage points that most of my peers just didn't have. So I was able to view the world through many lenses and angles. And that's only been a power to me.

Katherine Ann Byam  3:35  

It's interesting what you say, because I think, you know, we can talk about this origin story and how, how people from the Caribbean who then move here in later life, how they experienced the difference because it's definitely different, it's definitely different being in a place where you're expected to grow and to thrive. In other places where that's not the norm, what you're doing has examples. So you don't have enough examples of strong black women, for example, being very successful in their careers. Where I come from there are loads of examples of that, even though, you know, I can't say that the Caribbean is well advanced in terms of equality between men and women. But definitely the matriarch of the family is a strong character in the Caribbean story. So having that has been, I think, tremendous for me, but you're right, I only noticed how powerful that was when I left that environment and saw something different. So it does have an impact. And it's almost like you have to learn again. From my perspective, I have to learn how to navigate this sort of web because it's not something that I'm used to. It's definitely been a learning curve for me as well. What were the pros and cons of your experiences working in retail if we move back into the retail setting and how that has influenced today,

Karen Adams  4:56  

I'll start with the pros because there were many, many pros, I had come out of fashion, I attended a course this is how it began, I attended a course. And the title, of course, was start your own fashion business. It just shows where I was heading and what I wanted to do. And on that course, this guy was brilliant. He talked about the different facets and career options within the industry. And he spoke about merchandising, he described its function at the analysis and intricacies of the role. And he said it was a lucrative career. And so the light bulb went off, I thought it was fairly low risk to entry and lucrative. I'll go that way. 

Because I by then I had tried to, you know, to spin up my first startup at 19, realised the costs were quite prohibitive, really, because then back in the day, you there was no internet, you had to either have a shop or sell offline, you know, to your friends, more sort of small groups as I did. So, you know, I found my inner geek. So there's many of me, I've got many sides to me, I've got the designer who loves to create and express myself through clothing, and I love to design, I love analytics. And I'm always analysing I see patterns in things on very limited datasets. And I feel very intuitive about forecasting. And my forecast will always really bang on. And I just had an instinct for them, which hasn't left.

So I kind of walked into another side of me that woke up and I loved my career. I love the pressure. I love the pace, I love the power of it. I love the fact that it was lucrative, and I was able to, you know, buy property several times over move, and you know, travel. But I loved using my mind in that way, it was really mentally challenging and very difficult work. And I loved it. So these were all positives. And this really helped my sense of self to flourish. And I found another side of me that was highly disciplined and high performing. 

On the negative side, there are people who will hate you for being great at your job. And then they always tended to fall amongst my peers, people on my sort of ranking your organisation. So senior management, you look across horizontally, they're the ones who are threatened. And that's where the danger lies. So I had a couple of bullying episodes, I'm in life bound to my full resilience and my fight back. I just didn't know how to do that. My parents were quite strict, and they took away the ability for me to say no, and to protest loudly, which didn't serve me well, I have to say. So I was a little bit vulnerable, I guess, to the sort of toxic people you can find in the workplace. But that's not to say I mean, I still walked with confidence and effectiveness and so on. So it was more than my inner world, you know, I felt vulnerable in some senses, I kind of grew tired of it, after 11 years of adding millions to the bottom line of Big Blue Chip corporations, many of which have now sunk into that big black hole in the high street during the pandemic. But anyway, I grew tired of adding millions to their bottom lines. And I wanted to do something more purposeful. So I kind of had a spiritual awakening. And I wanted to do something for the good of humanity, not just adding dollars to big companies,

Karen Adams  8:17  

I do think it brought about your spiritual awakening. So a number of things happened in my personal life, involving racism involving toxic people that I should have been able to trust. I'm a very sensitive person. So I can't just brush off betrayal or treachery, it wounds me, deep down. And so that was something I needed to fix internally, or, you know, to improve my resilience. Although I'm still sensitive, frankly, things still upset me. So I have to guard against what I let into me. I began a search to find out why life hurts so much and why people are so unpleasant. You know, I was just so curious. And so upset by it. I just went on a quest to find out a little bit more. So I left and took a psychology degree, I ended up working with vulnerable adults with severe learning disability and epilepsy. And it was the most epic journey of my life, finding the wonder in different brain types, finding the love there, and the personality that was just the most amazing adventure. 

So I entered for a short time, the world of child protection and social work, which I also loved. So there's so many, there's so many. There's so many of me here. And I guess I'm trying to visit them all because I can you can't I can't deny the musician in me or the care in me or the psychologist in me or the you know, analysts to me, or the engineering me I can't sort of deny all of those and just do one thing because I've left everything on tap. The road was longer and more windy than I ever imagined. I thought a couple of stops now kind of resume getting back into the system. And just you know, but it didn't, it didn't go like that and I guess my current venture is part of that journey.

Katherine Ann Byam  9:57  

It's incredible. Your story I want to ask you, how are you now addressing the sort of experiences and concerns that you've had, or the challenges that you've had in the ethos of what is Kaia clothing?

Karen Adams  10:11  

Right. So I describe clothing as my phoenix rising it, you know, this is the culmination, this is where I stop in life and gather up all of me. And Kira clothing embodies all of those counts, all of those passions, all of those heart desires, all of her spirit, you know, that's all in there. And I designed it, I reached a point. So after the child protection, social work episode, I started my family. I had my son, he had very high needs as a child, I had a really nice job, assessing families, and because of his high needs, they wouldn't give me the flexibility I needed. So they said, you either come back full time, or you don't come back. So they took my job. And that's when I returned to entrepreneurship, full throttle, because I had to work on my own terms. So that's where my entrepreneurial journey began, it wouldn't have now of course, because we know that work from home can work. But then there was this notion that Alicia chained to someone else's desk, you couldn't effectively work. So. So having taken this entrepreneurial route, I decided that all of my desires for the world to make it better, to try and bring some love and fairness and justice into the entrepreneurial endeavour. This is embodied in Kaia clothing. So what that looks like is, for example, that I sought to become a B Corp, which originally the name was benefit corporation, it's a for-profit business, that it's designed and incorporated to do good in the world and have a positive impact. And part of my business model is that with every sale, a proportion is donated to a domestic abuse charity. And I've recently partnered with the British Heart Foundation to introduce circularity and also give to them. And of course, running a business involves all of the career skills that I've acquired, nothing is wasted. It's a zero waste endeavour,

Katherine Ann Byam  12:06  

Who does Kaia Clothing target and why?

Karen Adams  12:10  

You know, I've thought long and hard about this. And in corporate retail, especially, you clearly define your target customer, she has a name, she has a profession and an address right down to the tee, and you target her at the exclusion of all others. I'm adopting a different philosophy with chi clothing, because ultimately, the target audience is anyone who cares about the planet.

But in addition to that, it's targeted at people who use clothing to express themselves. So you know, I think we all do that to an extent, you know, we dress to say something, but some people talk, you know, through their clothes more than others. And they use texture and colour and style and cut and all these things to tell a story is storytelling in the way that a dancer or a musician will tell a story through their performance. For some clothing is a performance and you're, you're communicating who you are. So it's for people like that, who love clothes, but don't want to indulge in the damage, but want something a little bit different and expressive.

Katherine Ann Byam  13:09  

How are you measuring and managing your footprint and circular model as a clothing brand for people who are purchasing from you?

Karen Adams  13:18  

So I only purchased materials and finished goods and fabrics that are certified that have a traceable origin. Right, right back to the seed in the ground. And that's the only way to be really sure. You know, when I stand in front of people and I say these are sustainable, these will not deplete more than they won't take excessively, that can't be generated. So when I stand in front of people and declare that I need that to be bombproof to be true. So certification is what I look for.

So I use GOT certified fabrics. So my bamboos and cottons I've got certified. They're made by a small cooperative in India that do a lot of hand looming, and they use a lot of rain in the feeding of the cotton as it's growing and so on with low pesticide to no pesticide use. I have bought T-shirts that have the Greens credentials in the industry. So they're made in purpose-built solar powered facilities and they are fair trade and they are organic. So I go for either high credentials to offer the assurance, what I am trying to balance is the additional cost of doing so. Because you know, until I reach scale, you know, it's more expensive to conserve the planet than to trash it, especially with clothing. But this will be true until I hit scale.

So early support is vital so that I can get those economies of scale and bring prices to not cheap, but bring them down. I buy Irish linens that are made by a family run business centre. They come from Belgium where most of the world's fine linen is grown and harvested as their special techniques. Their linen is so beautiful. It is such a beautiful manufacturing story that you know, it grows in three months, it's fed by the elements, you put it up by hand, it's called retting. And you lay all these bundles of linen in the fields, and then the rain and the sun, everything that nature is complete, that process decays the outer skin so that you can get to the inside and the stock comb and thrashing the inner fibres that make linen flax. So I love that. I love that manufacturing process of linens,

Katherine Ann Byam  15:31  

this is a really important thing, I really think it's, it's important to understand how fabric is made and how, where it comes from. And I think this is an understanding I didn't have before my interest in sustainability, for sure. So it's really interesting to learn this from you from someone who's a connoisseur, per se, of fabric.

Karen Adams  15:49  

I'm reading and you know, watching consuming content all the time to just learn more and more and more especially about manufacturing, and under the chemical side to really understand the full extent of the damage and the choices. I know

Katherine Ann Byam  16:03  

that leading a sustainable fashion brand is challenging, definitely, there is no business that is untouched by the movement towards sustainability today, because I would say it is now widely accepted that we need to have more than a profit motive. But it doesn't mean that things are ready yet. So as you talk about, you know, the higher cost of doing business in a sustainable way, this cost is as a result of the fact that negative externalities haven't been factored into the cost of doing business the old way. And as those things begin to be factored in, as we start looking at ways to factor those things in as we build up on things like ESG reporting and looking at wider risks to this the ecosystem, as it were, what sort of challenges you've overcome already, that you want to share and talk about with others who might be on this journey as well.

Karen Adams  17:04  

Because sustainability is still fringe, I would class it as fringe. And the reason I'd class is that it is free. And just because you have to search hard to find sustainable materials that stand up to scrutiny, you know, I have to search hard to find the threads, the elastics, the fabrics, the commitment to sustainability, right down the supply chain, I have to seek them out. So it takes a little longer to find your suppliers if I were unscrupulous and what was prepared to sneak in a little less here and little that I'd be able to move more quickly and more cheaply. So it costs to commit to sustainability in time and in money.

So they're the biggest challenges having said that, that this fringe community is growing exponentially. And it's such a warm and lovely place, because people are on a venture to save the planet. And their commitment is just writ large over everything they do. And when you find people where sustainability runs through them, it's just such a lovely place to find yourself really hopeful and optimistic and courageous. And yeah, it's like finding the Warriors.

Katherine Ann Byam  18:21  

I agree with that so much. What would you say to other fashion designers interested in making a difference?

Karen Adams  18:30  

I would say harness your courage and do it and get on mission, get all in, don't tinker around the edges and don't align with any organisations that aren't fully converted towards sustainability. Just don't dilute your cause. You have to go all in and your network, you have to surround yourself with people who are all in because if you try and hybrid it, it doesn't work actually is what I found to my cost. Because if you network and you harness yourself to people whose values don't reflect your own, there will be a crash at some point in the cost. So I'd say guard against that.

Katherine Ann Byam  19:08  

I think that's great advice to be fair. And how can my listeners get involved and engaged and support what you're doing today?

Karen Adams  19:16  

Ah, well, if you like what you hear and you want to save the planet, I'd love your support. You can start with a T-shirt, or you can start with a follow up. So my website is Kaia. clothing.co.uk. My Instagram link is on there. So please come say hi on Instagram, that would be great and follow along.

If you want to go further if you want to purchase a Fairtrade organic t-shirt, then please do that. That would be great. I'm trying to get a mass t-shirt conversion going on because it's such a ubiquitous garment that we all wear. So if you just swapped one of their T-shirts for a wind powered Fairtrade organic one, we could sell my mission for 2020 20 days. Two is to stop one tonne of co2 emissions. So if you want to join me on that quest, buy a t- shirt. And let's, let's, you know, let's get that counter moving so that we can stop a tonne of co2.

Katherine Ann Byam  20:11  

Thank you so much, Karen, for coming on to the show. Really enjoyed the session. I think there's loads of great advice. I think of strong black women who are courageous and brave what it takes to be sustainable. You are an absolute beacon of light. So thank you for helping us to see always thank

Karen Adams  20:30  

you so much. It's been great. Thank you for having me.

About this Episode

Growing up in Idaho with two business
owning parents, Gordon Olson learned the value of hard work early on. He's always been fixated on technology and how people interact with it. And his problem solving nature led him to found Tory industries. Tory offers tankless water heaters through a subscription based model. Their unique service aims to reimagine what as utility through high efficiency technology, and a focus on the circular economy. Gordon is passionate about the water heater industry as it relates to construction, plumbing, and energy production. He's also mindful of the environment and how technology can enable us to live lives of abundance.

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Episode Transcript

Katherine Ann Byam  0:03  

  Gordon, welcome to where it is.

Gordon Olson  1:23  

I appreciate you having me here. Catherine.

Katherine Ann Byam  1:25  

It's wonderful to have you. And what sparked your interest in water heating?

Gordon Olson  1:31  

You know, I've lived in multiple apartments and lived with, you know, roommates, so forth. And it's always you always run out of hot water eventually, you know, and so, it really got to me, you know, I'm a tinkerer. I like to think about things and problem solve. And so became a, well, why isn't why doesn't everywhere have a tankless water heater? Like, it'd be so great. So we never had to run out of hot water. And, you know, it found out that well, tankless water heaters have a high use of power. And so, you know, that's really where I got my first steps into it. And from there, it really just kind of grew into being a passion for the industry, you know, seeing what other problems are in the industry? And how can I solve those as well? And so I've been on this journey for just about five years now, you know, and on having this passion for the industry and following it really closely seeing what's going on.

Katherine Ann Byam  2:39  

So how did you solve the problem of the amount of energy it uses? Tell me Tell me more.

Gordon Olson  2:46  

Yeah, so we decided to use induction heating vs convection heating, like most of them. And if you use just induction heating regularly, and you're heating a pipe up, it doesn't really actually work, because you know, conservation of energy and the laws of thermodynamics and so forth, that you don't get all that energy into your water, like convection wood. And so we knew we had to maximise surface area to be able to take advantage of that. And so the search really began for finding a material that was porous, that we could maximize surface area that we could also heat using induction heating. And so we came across that which is a specialised manufacturer, porous carbon foam that you can heat inductively and actually has better thermal characteristics than aluminium. And so we're maximising that surface area 100x. But we're able to heat it with very little power using the induction heating. And that's where we get our high energy efficiencies.

Katherine Ann Byam  4:00  

Wow, that is a big problem solving thing that you've just done is really impressive. And tell me how your parents influence the intrapreneur in you.

Gordon Olson  4:10  

You know, a lot of it was, I guess they're, you know, own and small businesses, it's a lot of day to day different problem solving. You know, a lot of things come up and, you know, managing, managing the budget and so forth. You don't have a lot of time, sometimes you don't have a lot to work with. And so it's What can I use this little amount of money with to maximise for the ultimate best scenario. And, you know, watching it really, really built that out and made me appreciate it what a small business owners go through. And, you know, being able to, to create something and put it out there for people and have I have an overall benefit for people who really, really inspired me, I should say,

Katherine Ann Byam  5:06  

Yeah, that's great. And tell me a little bit about why you wanted to get into sort of the Sustainable Development Goals, like what sparked that interest.

Gordon Olson  5:19  

You know, a lot of it is, so I guess the, let's say 2020, and everything going on with 2020, it's, you could actually see a lot more of the environmental impacts of things. So I'm, I'm in Montana, and, you know, the weather's changing, and a lot more fires and so forth. And it really became a we don't need, we can't just build this unit and follow traditional routes, it became a we need to actually build sustainability into our company, so we can have this impact. And, you know, there's a big cultural shift with it as well. And I'm, I've, I've been big, I guess, in my whole life with, hey, you know, let's, let's keep sustainable and so forth. You know, but it's all in how we do it, and how we do it the right way. And are we actually being sustainable? Or are we just saying that we are, so that's where it really began, hey, we need to actually be sustainable not walk the walk, not just talk the talk.

Katherine Ann Byam  6:35  

This is what I love about sort of subsidy, so green startups today, they start with the blank sheet, right, they start with, let's design this thing into the first product that we bring on to market, which I think is it's so it's so inspiring, it's, it's the right way to do it. You know, it's just the best format that we can have to kind of solve some of these problems. I want to ask a little bit about your challenges so far in getting started. So I think I can imagine that the challenges could have come from first the technology itself, then the backing, and then the launching etc. So tell me a little bit about the journey.

Gordon Olson  7:17  

Yeah, so you know, it's, we're actually, in this process of raising capital right now, which is a whole, you know, big thing in itself. And, you know, you're right, a bit of a lot of it was in the beginning, let's, we had to find the right technology. And so one of the best things that we decided to do was not just recreate the will, but let's find out what is already out there that we can take advantage of. And so that's what we actually did. And so we have patents that were actually licensed and have exclusive licensing. for that. One of them is from a national laboratory. And, you know, so that, that really helped and helped speed up the process of our development.

And, you know, from there, it was, okay, now we have, we have the technology, we know what we can do, we have the, you know, secured the licences and so forth. And now we need to go out and raise capital and so forth. And so that's kind of our stage that we're at now is raising capital. And, you know, along this, I would say, challenges, a lot of challenges come with building a product. You know, some people expect, especially hardware, they'll build it out. And they might build it to where some parts are 3d printed. Well, if you're, you know, wanton like our product like ours, that we plan on mass producing, you can't really 3d print parts, specialised parts, and so forth. And actually, you know, mass produce it. And so that has been a lot since the very beginning in the prototype stage, and all the way up into making sure that we're designing for mass production, so we can have the best and greater impact.

Katherine Ann Byam  9:10  

So I have a question for you. And this is going to be a tough question. I didn't give it to you before. So be prepared, you may need to take some time to think about it. I know that in order to get the financing and the backing, you need to have that patent protection, so that we need to look forward into the future of how this whole thing could be monetized and, and give a return to the shareholder and investor. But at the same time, when you come up with a solution, that's something that can save the world as part of many solutions that can save the world. What would you say is your responsibility to sort of share some of that technology?

Gordon Olson  9:51  

You know, I would say so, for example, like for us, you know, our big thing is having the greater impact and we know that Just being being a startup, we can't have as great of an impact. And so with our technology, the hot water heating industry is a massive industry from, you know, steam power to just your boilers and hospitals and schools and in manufacturing, like Pulp Paper plants, and so forth. So, you know, it's, it's a large industry, and we know, we can't cover the whole thing. And so with that, you know, to be able to share that it is being able to actually sublicense some of the technology out, and, you know, to key partners and so forth. So that is able to actually expand, and that it's not just, you know, closed in with it. So we can have that greater impact and actually, you know, I would say, benefiting, benefiting everyone.

Katherine Ann Byam  10:56  

Yeah, good response, I'll leave it there. It's always a debate that I have with people who have designed new solutions, because there's a lot more pressure now to come up with things and scale them quickly. And it's always interesting to see how people approach it as they navigate between two worlds. And that's essentially where we went between an old system that works in a certain way, we want to move to a new system, we don't know what the new system is yet. So it's always an interesting conversation.

Gordon Olson  11:28  

Yeah, you know, I definitely, definitely agree with that. It's the old way of things and transitioning, and how that will actually come out in the end, you know, it's, it's big.

Katherine Ann Byam  11:41  

Yeah. So we can shift now to cop 26? And what are your thoughts on how important cup 26 agreements are going to be, first of all? And what do you expect to see, especially the impact in the US?

Gordon Olson  11:57  

You know, so I like, for me individually, I, I like the these initiatives, and, you know, to try to have this greater impact. And, you know, to go back in my background a little bit, I've actually worked in the oil fields in out in North Dakota, and I was a roughneck for however long and so, you know, I've, I've experienced that life, and then around, I guess, you could say, that culture of people, as well as the culture of people that are, you know, more suited for sustainability and green energy.

And, you know, there's, there's a good things can start at the top, but at the end of the day, you know, we have to be able to bring technology to the masses, at an affordable price, to be able to, to re adopt new technologies. And, you know, so that's, that's what I like to see with all these initiatives and so forth is, you know, how, how much are they helping, you know, not just, I guess, top level, at the top level, and, you know, talking the talk, but let's say, are we going to be able to walk the walk right, and bringing that down onto an individual level? And, you know, a lot of a lot of education goes into that as well. It's not just to the masses, right? It's not just a, I guess, plans and solutions aren't always black and white.

 There's many variables that go into things. And, you know, I like the the overall plan, I think it'll, you know, have have a good impact. And, you know, the only thing that we can do is kind of try it. And let's, let's find out, let's find out how good of an impact it has. And, you know, as, as we're trying it, and moving through that, then, you know, if some things aren't, aren't working, you know, it's kind of like, like running a startup, you got to be able to be, you know, limber enough to be able to switch your direction relatively fast, to pick a new solution to drive it that direction that will have the greater impact.

Katherine Ann Byam  14:23  

So Gordon, how can people support your mission?

Gordon Olson  14:27  

They can go to Tory way.com. That's t o r II iway.com. And follow us on social media. We're on LinkedIn, as well as Twitter. And, you know, share with your friends and all as well, as you know, we're always looking for collaborations for licence agreements and partnerships with companies as well as different individuals. So

Katherine Ann Byam  14:52  

and you're looking in the US as well as outside of the US for collaborations or you just stay in us for now?

Gordon Olson  14:59  

Yeah, both Yeah. Okay, worldwide

Katherine Ann Byam  15:01  

Yeah. Perfect. Perfect. It's been lovely to chat with you. Thank you so much for joining the show. Season Four of where radius launch was brought to you today by Katherine Ann Byam business resilience and strategy consulting services. Katherine provides business assessments and strategic support to help guide your business toward a NetZero future. Get in touch with Katherine Ann Byam on LinkedIn.

About this Episode

Today's guest is Austin Kasso. He's originally from Oregon, and he moved to Indiana from New York after graduating high school in 2009. To pursue his passion for agriculture, with a vision set on revolutionising local food systems. Through his campaigns and contributions, he was named top 10 local food hero in the state of Indiana. In 2014. He created the first sustainable living group on Facebook, which has grown to be the most popular group on the subject with almost 100,000 members sustainable living was featured by Facebook and Austin was voted one of the top 50 sexiest environmentalists in 2021. Last year, he founded a new digital media platform exclusively for sustainability called stryver, which has already listed over 100 sustainable businesses in over 40 categories with a goal to populate the world's largest oil in one repository for green brands and campaigns. He believes in cultivating purposeful connections that empower people to shape a sustainable future.

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Episode Transcript

Katherine Ann Byam  0:03  

 Austin welcome, finally, to where ideas launch.

Austin Kasso 1:30  

Thank you so much for inviting me to your show. I appreciate it.

Katherine Ann Byam  1:34  

Yeah, it's been almost a year now that I've been in your community. And I first joined because I wanted to get the word out about what I was doing. But the community was was so active, it was so passionate, so convicted in what they were doing, and it was really impressive. It was already over 50,000 people at that time, and it's just been growing astronomically ever since I guess my first question is what really sparked your passion for sustainability? What got you into this?

Austin Kasso 1:59  

I remember back in high school and around ninth or 10th grade, is when I started to really develop an understanding for what I wanted to pursue after high school I was already thinking about my future and what really what I wanted to contribute to society and it was based on just all what I was observing and what you know, I wanted to help alleviate poverty, I wanted to really support the pursuit for social and civil and environmental justice to but put it in a nutshell.

So you know, I've read a lot of books about a lot of different things from you know, philosophy to Buddhism to to economics, and even cognitive science. And so, you know, I've kind of developed a a worldly perspective as I was growing up, and then around that time in high school, I decided that I want to go to my cousin's farm in North Carolina, and experience what it was like to actually live and work on a homestead. I'd say that's what they had. I mean, they had 100 chickens, cows, they had a whole fish pond, they had goats fit, huge acre vegetable garden, you know, all sorts of vegetables, very bio diverse, I mean, they would unload the whole pickup truck first of manure, and we would shovel it we'd stand knee deep in the manure and shovel it into the garden and spread it around and I mean it was worked out from from morning to night and I you know, I grew up on Long Island, where I spent most of my time playing video games on the computer after school and then but it just wasn't you know, it was it was something that made me happy but it just wasn't totally fulfilling.

And what I discovered from working on the farm was that it was fulfilling in such a way that it changed my life in such a way that it actually when I came back, my grades improved radically. I went from being a cnd student to straight A student so and then it just continued on into college and that's when I had decided I was gonna move to Indiana to study agriculture and be more involved with urban farming. And I had such an energy and passion that ignited from that time that time in North Carolina that making headlines in Indiana right away just my second year of college I already had made the the college magazine

Katherine Ann Byam  4:33  

Well it's it's an incredible story. I think I shared a little bit the snippet of that I used to be in the farm with my with my grandfather, and it's something that I took for granted because I was very young at the time. He had what I consider to be a huge forest. You know, when I think about it, no and I go back and visit home. No, it doesn't look as big as I remember. But he would spend his entire day there so he was already retired. He'd wake up in the morning very early at six am, he'd do his prayers, then he goes straight to the garden, you'd come up for lunch, then he finished off, and then he'd rest.

 And that was the cycle every day, you know, this is part of the thing. And what was nice about it is that the neighbours would bring food as well. So they would always be this food swap going on, you know, if the neighbours were doing chickens or having some type of vegetable, and my grandfather was doing fruits and avocados and stuff like that, and it's really different the kind of the quality of the life that you live, when you have such a community when you have such a spirit. And you could never be like just quietly in your home and alone, where that's what I feel now that we sit quietly, no homes struggling all alone, in March 2020 year group was still at about 3000 people. What happened

Austin Kasso 5:46  

in? Yeah, in 2020, it's, you know, I'd stagnated for years. Since I started in 2014. It was, I think it was more along the lines of 6000 people actually, in 2020. But either way, it had rapidly started growing to 20,000 people in just a couple months at the beginning of 2020. And I think mainly, it was due to the pandemic, I'm not sure it's just it seems that it correlated directly with that. And then, and then, you know, every time there was like, another, you know, climate event, you know, like a hurricane or snow storm, you know, like what happened in Texas, there's a huge correlation between what happened in Texas, and huge growth in our group at that time, as well. And then the recent hurricane, we also had a huge spurt that brought us from, you know, another 10,000 members, you know, in addition, so it seems to correlate a lot with existential crises.

Katherine Ann Byam  6:51  

Yeah, definitely. And as sustainable intrapreneurs, you know, I know, we're all about sustainable living, but at the same time being an intrepid it, you have to have some sort of relationship with money as well. And we struggle with this. I think, in general, a lot of the sustainable businesses that I meet, struggle with converting their idea into something that sustains them. And it's not just about, you know, making the capitalist stream, it's about making a sustainable living, from what you're doing, what are your thoughts on how you can create more value and monetize value for your incredible community?

Austin Kasso 7:34  

Yeah, so I think that was the one thing that I tried to avoid for the longest time, because it made me sort of uncomfortable, you know, I was very, I pursued the business of urban farming in Indiana, so I wasn't unfamiliar with business or pursuing a campaign or, you know, doing things for profit. But really, you know, it came to the group, I just, you know, I didn't think of it as a way to create a monetizing scheme, or, you know, I just didn't, you know, didn't really understand how I could use it in that way.

 But I understood that the group itself was becoming more and more impactful, and I wanted to figure out a way to actually leverage the impact that we can make as a group. And that's what led me, you know, I was observing, you know, well, how, what is it about this group that I can actually, you know, serve people that's useful in a way that can also help build the momentum, and leverage or impact together, so it comes more so from that perspective of less, it's, it's more about the people than it is about the profit, and but you still have to make money to drive it forward. So that's, that's when I was starting to see that, you know, the most common thing in our group is that people are asking, Where is it all in one source for tangible products or crowdfunders, or, you know, blogs that I can find in support?

Because, you know, people are always saying that they're looking for looking on Google, and they're having no luck. And then they're also, you know, trying to understand, you know, what are people's, you know, what are people's businesses in the group that they can support, you know, they, you know, they want to, they're part of a bigger community, and they want to support smaller businesses, and, you know, sure they can, there's a way to do that on Amazon. But at the same time, a lot of people in our group are just not a fan of Amazon. And it's a growing trend that, you know, well, Amazon's just not the, you know, all in one answer.

So, and we're trying to come at this from a less bigger corporate agenda perspective. You know, it's, we're coming at this, you know, we're the smaller guys, we're the underdogs, so it's more meaningful to us and it allows us to also give back more so we have a niche market that we can really Focus on. And so that's where I got the idea to create strivers to collect submissions for businesses and then you know also to promote them in our group because that was also a big thing that people wanted to do was promote their business in our group, since it's so popular and it's such a niche market, it's there's a huge incentive there for sustainable brands, you know, to post their content,

Katherine Ann Byam  10:24  

what has been some of the challenges in managing such a large community? Have you had any challenges?

Austin Kasso 10:29  

Oh, yeah, from the very beginning, it wasn't so bad. But then as it grew rapidly, we had more and more people involved. And so we had more diverse views involved. And so there's a lot of clashing between different perspectives on what is considered to be sustainable. And I can understand that, you know, I'm sympathetic to everybody's cause, and, but I still want to create a space that was inclusive for everybody, and sort of that sometimes the aggression can turn a lot of people away.

 So we had to really focus on moderating the group, you know, from a sensitivity, you know, enforcing our rules, which are, you know, respect everyone's views, and be kind and civil in your comments. And I had to develop a team, and our team is actually, you know, largely responsible for helping to maintain the positive environment that it is, and people are really appreciative of that. And, you know, it's something that also people say that they can't find another groups because, you know, they say, other groups, admins don't care as much about the conflict. And, you know, a little bit of controversy and such can can drive engagement, but you know, has to be respectable controversy.

Katherine Ann Byam  11:50  

It's, it's an interesting one, it's something it's the one thing that kicks off in my group, my group is usually just really businesses trying to help each other. But then there are some times maybe just a few people who would come in and say, Well, you know, you can't call your business sustainable. If you haven't done everything, like don't call it sustainable, it's greenwashing. And in some way, I kind of empathise with that, like, I can identify with what they're saying, because we do call out the big corporations for their little slip ups.

So as we progress in our journey, you know, it's it is a journey, it's a journey at the end of the day, and none of us will be perfect. But at the same time, it seems to black and white. So this is some of the things that spark up definitely for people. And I think the other thing I would say, that I see in my community is a bit of, I would call it decision fatigue, and a bit of climate anxiety and decision fatigue, of always having to check everything, that everything, you can't find the right suppliers, you can't find the suppliers who are ethical enough? And how do you how do you sort of support that side of it? If it comes up?

Austin Kasso 12:58  

Yeah, so you know, I think giving everybody an equal say, or an equal Avenue, it allows for just, you know, humanity to be the final Judge of what is sustainable. Because I mean, what is sustainable is just what's going to sustain, you know, and what's going to carry forward. So if it's, and there's a number of ways you can do that. So if people are learning, and I think the biggest thing about our group is that it exposes all those different perspectives and exposes, you know, the facts behind them the experiences, and it kind of helps people understand what, what the reality of sustainability is what that conversation looks like, on a more worldly basis.

And so, you know, as we're, you know, for instance, with our platform, and I have, you know, similarly multiple businesses who, you know, may look at each other differently, but they're all one where one way or the other, they're trying to pursue a positive impact and they're, what they're doing might not be 100% perfect compared to someone else. But, you know, if we all help support, and direct resources, and channel, you know, our support through, you know, these avenues to, you know, support all these businesses together, you know, on a platform like ours can help everyone else achieve their goals and strengthen their own sustainability goals.

Katherine Ann Byam  14:27  

Absolutely. What's next for Striver? And how can others get involved with what you're doing?

Austin Kasso14:33  

You know, there's a lot next for stryver I want to say but right now, you know, we have some exciting recent updates that you know, are soon to be published where, you know, members can now create single listings, and if they want to be discovered on our platform, but you know, they're they're not really ready to promote or they don't have a budget for marketing campaign, you know, they now have an opposite opportunity to create us. listing. And then later on, I don't know how soon we can achieve this, but it is the next stage of things is where we're going to create more interactive features for free members on our website to, for example, follow businesses on our platform and get notifications when they submit new content.

So it's kind of another way for people to get noticed on our platform and then we're going to continue to find more ways that we can create interactions on our website between members and businesses and create add, you know, avenues and opportunities for businesses to actually help improve their marketing campaigns, you know, through through our platform, you know, they can, we're looking at building in more services later on, like a more one on one consulting till very affordable. And the goal is to really just help small businesses improve their campaigns to get better results when you know, when they're promoting on our platform.

Katherine Ann Byam  15:58  

That's great. I have one final question for you. Yeah. Are you fulfilled?

Austin Kasso 16:03  

Absolutely. I am more than fulfilled. I'd like you know, I guess I'm so happy about this platform being successful. Because a year ago when I first started it, it was it was like a, an arts and crafts project, you know, where I was just, it felt like a scrapbook of things that I was trying to put together and I was just like, is really gonna work. But now it's like the concept of it. I just kept building at it and building at it, and it's finally shaped into something really, really fantastic.

Katherine Ann Byam  16:33  

Congratulations and all your success. I'm really in awe of you and really admire what you're doing. And I wish you the best of luck as we continue on.

Austin Kasso 16:41  

Well, thank you so much.

Katherine Ann Byam  16:45  

This episode was brought to you today by the Eco business growth Club by Katherine Ann Byam and by the space where ideas launch, the Eco business growth club supports positive impact SMEs with coaching new health, and community support toward achieving the impact and reach they set out to meet. You can find out more by connecting with where ideas launch on Instagram or following the hashtag where it is launched across all of your social media.

About this Episode

My next guest is Nicole Broad, owner and designer at the Fruit Moth, a clothing and accessories brand with a conscience. Having launched in 2020 with a range of statement pussy bows and detachable colours. The fruit market now offers shopper bags, reversible sun hats, dresses and reworked blouses, handmade in her home studio in Manchester. All of the Fruit Moth's collections are created using vintage and remnant fabrics, and pre-loved clothing. With sustainability at the forefront of the Fruit Moth, no fabric will ever go to waste. Any off-cuts are reworked into small accessories or donated to a local primary school. And all packaging and stationery are made from 100% recyclable materials.

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Episode Transcript

Katherine Ann Byam  0:28  

 Nicole, welcome to Where Ideas Launch. 

Nicole Broad  1:13  

Thank you so much for having me. 

Katherine Ann Byam  1:14  

It's really wonderful to have you. I'm excited to share all the great news that's happening in your world at the moment. But before we get there, I'm going to ask you a couple of questions. And the first one is really why the fruit moth? Why that name? 

Nicole Broad  1:28  

So weirdly, it's actually the name of my wedding dress. I'm not married yet. I'm not even engaged. But it's the only dress that I've ever been obsessed with fashion since I was little. And it's the only dress that I've ever not been able to stop thinking about. When I saw it. I was like, I'm only ever going to get married if I'm wearing that dress. Well, and it's a Vampire's Wife Dress. He's my favourite designer anyway. But I just knew that I wanted to get married in it. But at the time, I couldn't justify buying it. I regretted it forever. And then it kind of got to a point where I thought we were going to get engaged, we are at some point.

And I actually emailed them last year, and said, What are you ever going to get the Fruit Moth Silk Maxi Dress back in stock? And they said "No". So but they did give me the name, it's a Liberty fabric. So they gave me the fabric name. So I ended up having the fabric shipped from the Netherlands so that I could get my dress made for me. Six months after that, they contact me again and said, "We found one in your size," the wedding dress and the fabric. But yeah, I knew that I wanted to start a brand. I have always known about SEO at the marketing university. And I thought that's what I want people to feel when they think about Fruit Moth dress or accessories. I want them to not stop thinking about it. So the Fruit Moth.

Katherine Ann Byam  3:05  

That is just brilliant. My wedding dress is in a box waiting for that ring to be on my finger. I can't actually wait to see it. So now you know you've really piqued my interest, really. What drove you to start your own business? I know that you studied marketing and that you actually have this business as a side gig. And that's actually the whole topic of the conversation today starting successful side gigs. But what drove you to start your own business?

Nicole Broad  3:31  

Yeah, as you said, I studied fashion and design in college. Basically, ever since I was little, I've always always wanted to be a fashion designer. Like I knew that that was what I wanted to be when I was probably 12,13 a long, long time. And I went to college, studied Design. And it really put me off fashion designing because everything was using patterns. I didn't feel creative in any way. I just felt like I was making something that someone else had designed. I didn't feel like a designer. And it really, really put me off.

Actually, to the point where I sold my sewing machine and I haven't, I didn't have a sewing machine again until November last year. So that was 12 years ago. (Well) Yeah, so I but then I went and did Marketing at university. So I did International Fashion Marketing at the uni. So I learned how to run a business, which I've been doing. Since I graduated really. I started off in marketing executive roles and added a bit of personal styling for the last three, nearly four years. I've been running a menswear brand for the owner so I do all of the e-commerce and marketing for him. And then yeah, last year it was because marketing is such it's such an intense career option. And there is no time like you have no time.

Other than work, and then you want to go to the pub. So then lockdown happened. And I was like, "oh my god all this free time," I don't have to commute anymore. I can spend my lunch breaks actually doing something for myself. So I have saved a little bit of money. And I thought you know what I'm going to do what I want it to do, initially. And I'm going to fall back in love with it. And I'm not going to use patterns, because that's what made me fall out of love with it. So yeah, I just started making accessories, literally just cut them by eye kind of just for myself. And then I thought, well, just see what happens. Let's just ask, I've set up a business for in my job anyway. So I knew exactly what to do with Shopify

. And what apps I needed, I knew how to do all of the logistics sides of it. Because I've been doing it for the past four years. So I thought, well, not really got that much to lose. I might as well just give it a go. And yeah, then it's just kind of snowballed from thinking that maybe I'll sell a colour here and there. And it's getting to a point where it might not be a side gig.

Katherine Ann Byam  6:11  

Well. That's this is massive congratulations for taking that big step. And I think the pandemic opened doors for a lot of people to make these kinds of pivots. So tell us a little bit about how your journey has been in developing the business? And what sort of challenges have you faced.

Nicole Broad  6:32  

So starting the website was all really easy. And I think as well because I didn't put pressure on myself because I already had a full-time job. I think that really helped me because I didn't really think that too much about it. And I think that's why it has done well because I've just been really honest and open from the start. Not trying to make myself look like a brand. Just Everyone knows that I do it from my bedroom. And I think my customers actually like that. Challenges.

What challenges have I faced so far? Probably actually working from home is a challenge. Doing this from my bedroom has been a challenge. I've recently, literally last week managed to force the other half into the spare room. So our bedrooms are now in the spare room, and I actually do have a studio. So I think it will get a lot easier from here. But actually just trying to fit in all of them because I only work with deadstock fabrics as well. Where there are piles of fabrics. absolutely everywhere.

Everywhere you look, you could sleep any way you look in because there are just piles of fabric everywhere. So yeah, sleeping around that wasn't great and possibly hasn't tested my relationship. But yeah, that's been the main challenge is working from home and actually doing everything from here as well working my full-time job from here. Having my studio here and living here is definitely challenging at times. My Instagram growth at the start was really challenging as well like infuriatingly challenging, but only for a really short amount of time. But I'm very impatient. So when I didn't see numbers straight away, I think that is a challenge for me, as well, because I'm used to working with big numbers. So working my head around only having 100 followers for the first three months was probably a bit of a challenge as well.

Yeah. And did you go to your existing network to tap your followers at first? Or did you just try to grow based on the strength of the brand organically?

I definitely tried to work organically. Unfortunately, the full-time job that I have is definitely not like my customers. And the people that I work with are I don't think that they can really help me in this sort of way out. So I live in Manchester and the brand that I have been working full time for is technically a "fast fashion" brand. So it's everything that I do not want the Fruit Moth to be. So it's really yeah, the network that I had to the point where I just closed out my LinkedIn and made a new one. Like, I just wanted a clean slate. I don't think that there's much that I could gain from that.

Whereas if I was starting a brand that was wholesaling, I would have had so many connections. Yeah, definitely not direct to consumer.  I don't have a network for that, unfortunately. Yeah, I think that's been good as well. To be fair, I think that helps the brand grow organically and not go in the opposite direction. I always knew that I wanted it to be sustainable.

Katherine Ann Byam  9:55  

Yes.

Nicole Broad  9:55  

So I think growing it organically is the only way that you can do that really.

Katherine Ann Byam  10:00  

Yeah, yeah, no, I get that. So in what ways would you describe your brand as sustainable? You know, I'm tapping in here to the 17 Sustainable Development Goals. And I'm just wondering if there are other goals in particular that you're addressing with the statements that your brand makes.

Nicole Broad  10:17  

Obviously, I'm still very much in my infancy, I've only just hit eight months. So really, really young brand. And there are so many different goals that I would like to complete for the Fruit Moth. But currently, I do think, I think there's a tendency with brands when they first start to try and do everything all at once, and try and hit everything and put so much pressure on themselves that eventually it just implodes anyway. So I really focused on the fact that all of my fabrics are either remnant or vintage.

Like, I'm not bringing any new fabrics into the matrix. So I suppose that my main goal from the 17 Sustainable Development Goals is focusing on sustainable consumption. And my production patterns, it's pretty impossible to not have a good production pattern when I'm creating it all in my own home. But obviously, as it grows, I would want to keep that as well. Yeah.

And using the vintage and remnant fabrics, not adding to the abundance of like, there are so many fabrics that go to landfill, there are so many garments that go to the landfill, there is no need for me to create new fabrics. And obviously, I need to make sure because I'm working on my own, I need to make sure that I'm paying myself a living wage. Otherwise, I'm not a sustainable brand. And I can't call myself on. I was actually listening to a podcast the other day and someone said, it was Catch Rhys, which is a jewellery brand. And she said that she doesn't call herself sustainable.

She calls herself responsible, right? Which I thought was amazing. I've not heard that word. One of my biggest worries, in fact, was the biggest challenge that I should have said about the last question, pricing. Yeah, it's a minefield life. And for me to work out how much my time is worth, as well as the costs, the delivery, the packaging, the electricity that I'm using in my house, like all of these things normally would just be all consumed within a factory for a fashion brand. But obviously, I have to consider all of them in my costs. And when you're first establishing a brand, it's really difficult to sell yourself like that. I think the imposter syndrome kicks in a little bit. And you say, is that right? Yes.

Should I be charging that much? But yeah, so I think I think that is a really difficult part of, especially having a sustainable business because there are so many businesses that use vintage fabrics, but I just feel like they undersell their own time. Like, it takes a long time to make a dress, like a long time to make a dress from scratch, make your own patterns. And all of that needs to be considered before pricing your items. Yeah. So yeah, I think that's definitely it. And I'll do quite a lot of things for charity as well, donating 10% of my sales to diabetes UK for the next three months, because I'm doing this challenge. And I'm a member of Ecology. And they like to plant trees every month in your business's name. So you pay like a subscription fee and it sort of offsets your carbon. So yeah, anything like that. And I'm always looking for new ideas.

Katherine Ann Byam  13:52  

Yeah, that's, it's really interesting what you brought up about pricing. I share your challenge. It definitely is a challenge for us, as sustainable businesses to come up with the right pricing. I, I like to think about this is as really going back to basics. So what do I really need to live, like to sustain the quality of life that I feel I want to sustain? as well as to sustain the quality of service I want to maintain? What does that cost me together? And then how many units you know and this is the company to pride how many units do you need to sell to make that you know how much you need to invest to sell those many units so I think it's it's really for me breaking it down into numbers. I like to think about it as sustainable businesses are kind of lifestyle choices, and therefore your lifestyle is part of it.

So being able to preserve that freedom that you have to, wake up when you want and do the work that you want to do, add the value you want to do give where you want to give it, you need to just cost that out, you know that your whole life. And then and then put that into, you know where you need the business to be and then choose your pricing according to that. But it's still tricky because quantity and quantity and price have a relationship as well. And I guess this is where your time comes in.

So how many pieces can I realistically produce? Considering the time I need to spend on marketing the time I need to spend on other things, etc? And then work it out based on that. But it's not simple? Yeah, it's just something that I think as lifestyle businesses, we just need to trim up our lifestyle to what we do when we price. But yeah, it's a fascinating conversation. I think there are probably many ways to look at it. So, Nicole, I know that you have had some challenges along the way to becoming a business owner. several challenges, actually, you shared a few with me. I'm wondering if you can share with the listeners, some of what you've gone through and how you've overcome it and turned it into values in your business.

Nicole Broad  16:08  

Yeah, so I've had a bit of a dramatic life for the past six years. And so six years ago, I was 23, my partner's 28. And unfortunately, he passed away very, very suddenly. And that kind of sent me into a bit of a spiral, really. I got into a bit of debt. And eventually, the stress gave brought on type one diabetes, which I got diagnosed with within 2019. At the start of the year. That's been a bit crazy. But also, I think, I think there are two ways that people can go when they have severe trauma. And you can either just give up, and you're done. Like, that's it. You've had enough. Or you can just like, girls, dying definitely made me think life is social, and I just need to grab it. I need to do whatever I can do to make my life worth it. He died at such a young age, he died.

He was a year younger than I am now when he passed away. And he was only just getting started in his career. And it was just so cruel. But I yeah, so now, definitely focusing on this. If I died tomorrow, at least people could say, "but she did that Fruit Moth thing. That was pretty impressive." But eight months was pretty impressive. So I think there's always been a lot of hurdles. I think I'm a million times stronger than I would have been if that hadn't have happened. I kind of believe in fate anyway. I always have. And although that is the worst kind of failure you can ever have. I do think it's taught me everything that I needed to know, to have the confidence and the determination to make life what I wanted it today. 

Katherine Ann Byam  18:07  

I totally get that. And like, you know, really, I congratulate you for all that you've accomplished. tell everyone what's just happened in your business, because I know this is really exciting. 

Nicole Broad  18:18  

It's so exciting. And it doesn't feel real talking about it. And so back in March, just on a whim, I was shopping on the high street. And on a whim, I applied to be a partner. And this was like, obviously, the business was only like six months old. And I heard back and they were like, "yeah, we'd love to have you onboard," which I was really happy about anyway. But then they said, Oh, it said 250 pounds joining fee. So at the time, I was like, "Oh, well, that's nice that they accepted me. But I can't pay that right now.

I've got a lot of expenses going out this month. And I'm not making any money yet." So I just ignored it. And then last week, about 10 days ago, I got an email saying "we've been watching your growth, we really really want you to be our next partner. If we waive the joining fee, will you partner with us?" And I thought it was a standard email. But, but it turns out it wasn't. And I went live on Not On The High Street on Friday.

That is so awesome. I love this brand. I remember going well before when I was more of a consumer. I remember going to this website to look for stuff because there would always be something original, something you hadn't thought about and really exciting stuff. So it's wonderful. I think your brand perfectly matches them which is what makes sense about them reaching out to you so lovely. 

So exciting. And I celebrated a bit too much over the week.

Katherine Ann Byam  19:58  

It's pretty good news. So I feel as if your side gig is really starting to blow up. Alright, so what advice would you give to people just starting out now? Or maybe people who've been in business for a while, but it's still probably struggling with their growth? What sort of advice would you give them?

Nicole Broad  20:19  

Okay, I'm going to firstly go with Instagram because specifically for a product-based business, I think you have to be on Instagram. Now, I think it's so, so important. And I know that there are, there are other social media platforms that I really need to pay more attention to like Tik Tok and Pinterest. I need to up my game. But I could not have grown as a business without Instagram. So I'm like all for it. My account started growing and I started seeing sales as soon as I joined in with a virtual vintage market. An influencer wore one of my pussy bows. And after that one of the founders of a virtual vintage market got in touch with me and said, "Please, please, please, can you apply for our February market."

And at that point, I was literally I was doing like 200 pounds a month sales. And I thought that was amazing. And now like six months later, I'm doing like 2000 2500 pounds a month sales. And I do genuinely put it down to a virtual vintage market and Instagram and the community that they've built is just incredible. And I'm shown up on Instagram as well. Like, I remember us having a conversation in January. Guineas, put your face behind the brand, geez, put your face behind the brand.

And I was like, "Oh, I just don't know, I don't like having my photo taken." And now I'm like, half of my feed is my face. And people buy into that. Like, I think it's so important, especially for a small brand, especially for a sustainable brand. People want to see who is making these things, people want to see who's coming up with the ideas. And I get customers now who are genuinely my friends last week, I had a customer send me a bunch of flowers. When she found out about Not On The High Street. She sent me a bunch of flowers. There are many like these people who are amazing. And they do want to buy into people. (Yeah) And I think I genuinely think it's 80% the person and 20% the product.

Yes, obviously your product has to be amazing. But if you're not there and there's no face to the product, you're just any other brand really, life people are buying into you. And my other main thing, I always say this, "just be kind." The difference it makes, especially in a business setting. But you should just be kind and nice to people. And that's what people want. Like, I comment on all of my customers, I comment on their photos all the time. Like I'm their friend. Like I chat to them in my DMs like I've got some of them as Facebook friends now. And it is all just about showing an interest in people and not just showing interest in sales. And then the sales just come naturally once you've built that connection with your community.

And unless people say that Instagram isn't a community, because people are following you. It's a community, like my little community that I've got. I've just hit 2000 followers last week. And I would say 70% of those followers, I actually tracked them. It is a community in my opinion. But yeah, so Instagram, show your face and be kind. Yeah, my that my three-pointers.

Katherine Ann Byam  23:47  

I love that. I really love that. What feedback Would you like to share with the listeners on our tool communities? So Women In Sustainable Business and the Eco business Growth Club on Facebook? So how have they helped you to sort of position yourself and get yourself ready for the group that has come?

Nicole Broad  24:05  

Women In Sustainable Business is absolutely amazing. There are so many inspiring women and I know there are a few men now as well. But there are so many inspiring women there, reading their stories, and listening to their wins. Like I love it when you do the "Can we have your wins for the week?" That's my favourite. I love reading people's wins. And when you also you just so often go onto Facebook and see someone popping up a question on women in state or business or on Eco-Business Growth hub. You see, you see someone putting on a question you think I was wondering that the other day?

 Yeah. So you don't even have to ask the question. Just scroll down. Just scroll down and read it and you'll probably find your answer. And I saw I think I joined at Christmas time because I took part in the January challenge right. Then I joined the Eco business Growth Club straight away. And that is Like that group just magnified. I feel like everyone knows each other in the club. But all of the members were just jumped at the chance of helping anyone. And that is the best thing. Like, again, it's the community thing that was talking about with Instagram. Like, it's just being kind and giving that free advice. That might be something that you know that you think is normal knowledge but there's someone that doesn't know it. Yeah, and vice versa. Yeah. And yeah, it's just a beautiful little community to be a part of.

Katherine Ann Byam  25:33  

Nicole, it's been such a pleasure to hear your story to see your growth. So I feel like I've been there from when basically almost the beginning and see, see you flourish and see The Fruit Moth grow into the brand that it has become. And I wish you continued success. 

Nicole Broad  25:50  

Thank you so much, Katherine.