035 The Ink Bin

035 The Ink Bin

About this Episode

Becky Baines is a teacher and single mum to two enthusiastic young boys, living is North Essex. She established her eco-fundraising business, The Ink Bin, in 2019 as a direct result of trying make an impact towards issues of climate and recycling as well as raising valuable funds for schools and charities across the UK. She now works tirelessly to save home-use ink cartridges from landfill and, to date, has recycled approximately 30,000 products destined for landfill.

Becky has stuck firm to her teaching roots and produces a wealth of free, downloadable resources for young people interested in environmental matters. Her latest project is encouraging busy teachers to set up Eco Councils or Eco Clubs within schools by giving easy step-by-step weekly resources and ideas as well as starting points for weekly discussions in schools.

With twenty years of working in schools, Becky recognizes that young people are in an excellent position to create new routines at school and at home which will have a lasting environmental impact as well as hopefully reaching a more mindful life.

The business which she has created works on a Community level, whereby schools; charities and plastic-free groups can place The Ink Bin within a local area and collect home-use ink cartridges on a wider scale. This is increasingly relevant now that 67% of us say we intend to remain working from home at least part of the time post-Covid19. Most of the products sent to The Ink Bin can be refilled and thus reenter the Circular Economy- the ideal environmental solution. This model allows The Ink Bin to give money back for certain cartridges and schools have raised anything up to £550 on an individual basis in the past year.

Becky’s latest campaign has seen businesses place The Ink Bin within their offices to collect employees’ home-use ink cartridges as they move to a more split working routine between office and home. One of the latest national businesses to sign up have placed Ink Bins across their regional offices in support of the homeless charity Emmaus UK. Businesses are asked to sponsor The Ink Bin installation and then services are free after that; with the freedom to choose their own charity of choice.

Subscribe to Where Ideas Launch

Episode Transcript

Katherine Ann Byam  0:02  

Becky, welcome to Where Ideas Launch.

Becky Baines  0:44  

Hello, welcome. Thank you. Good morning. Thank you for having me.

Katherine Ann Byam  0:56  

Wonderful to have you, Becky. Why is it important that we address ink disposal in your view? Why is this such a passion for you?

Becky Baines  1:04  

And I think obviously, we're on a journey where we need to be thinking about everything we use. But I think for me, ink is something that is an essential part of our lives that we can't do without and at present technology means that it still has to be in plastic. And the other thing about ink is the fact that they are actually so easy to recycle. They are likened to a refillable water bottle. So as long as they go into a factory, they can be refilled up to six times. So for me, it's about spreading the word to people that it's okay and very, very easy to recycle them. It's also something that we're selling so much of in the UK. We're selling 45 million units every year and 80% of those go straight into landfill, which is just unnecessary.

Katherine Ann Byam  1:55  

Well, that's a really big number. Yeah, tell me a little bit about where you have these services available now in the UK and how your business is set up?

Becky Baines  2:06  

We started off mostly focusing on schools and charities. So I created the ink bin as such, which is a lovely cardboard bin, which gets personalised for each individual organisation that works with us. We started by sending out ink bins across schools, charity shops, various different places, and the local community would then bring their ink cartridges and drop them in. As we grow, we're getting more and more interest from local councils, retail outlets, chains, and all sorts who are keen to actually put the ink bin across all of their different stations.

Katherine Ann Byam  2:48  

And what's been the biggest struggle for you and getting all this going? I can imagine you've had a few.

Becky Baines  2:54  

We've had a few, I think keeping the resilience going. I think COVID really was difficult for us. And as it was our second year of business as well. It was just keeping the faith that actually we are doing something really special and to keep going. And it's proven that the last few weeks actually since things are opening up more. All of a sudden the business is going where I very much hoped it would be. But I think it has been that resilience to keep going on the days when we're working so hard and you keep having the message that we love what you're doing. But we can't do it with you because of COVID.

Katherine Ann Byam  3:37  

Yeah. And how have you balanced this with your teaching life? I can imagine that's also complicated.

Becky Baines  3:42  

Yeah, it is. So I still teach every morning. And I do that via zoom now. And I have a wonderful student who I work with. But yes, it's been a real struggle to balance everything. And especially because anybody who knows me will know I'm so passionate and enthusiastic that I take on every new project that comes my way. So really, I guess what has fallen by the wayside is any sort of personal life or time for myself.

Katherine Ann Byam  4:13  

 And how are you incorporating this into the teaching work that you do?

Becky Baines  4:22  

I think I try and incorporate it into the teaching, but I think it's been the other way around more so that the teaching has completely impacted the journey The Ink Bin has taken and we do tireless work with schools. And we're very, very set up to work with schools because I understand what busy places they are. So I make the systems very much fit into them rather than having to fit in around us, but also working tirelessly with educating young people on matters of sustainability. We produce weekly newsletters for anyone who wants to read them, but they talk to really five to eighteen year olds. And I am at the moment on the committee for the Eco culture Stir Festival, which is happening in September, running the educational side of things. So I think it's a case of once a teacher, always a teacher, and I think anybody who starts to look into the business will see that it has had a huge impact on how the event runs.

Katherine Ann Byam  5:26  

And you mentioned that but what is your team like?

Becky Baines  5:31  

The team is very small, it was very small. And I say we because actually at the moment it is pretty much me and my two fabulous children who spend their lives groaning that we have to go out to another event, or mommy has to sit and go on another zoom call. And we are in the process of getting a kickstart with an employee, which I'm thrilled about, and in the process, also of looking to employ some young people around the local area to help with the educational provision as well.

Katherine Ann Byam  6:03  

That sounds really, really fascinating. Yeah. And, what gets you into sustainable design and the circular economy? What was the inspiration for you?

Becky Baines  6:14  

And I think, I think, like so many people, I'm passionate about what's going on in our world and the changes that are happening, and I'm a mom of two young children. I want them to grow up in a beautiful world. So I think when I came across a business that can help the environment, and help schools and charities to fundraise, it was a win-win for me. But then, the more I engrossed myself in the sustainability world and the more that I developed my understanding of the circular economy, the more I’m just hooked. I'm passionate. It's common sense. It's just a wonderful, very, very simple concept.

Katherine Ann Byam  7:00  

Yeah, that's brilliant. And in terms of these eco councils and eco clubs, what have you gotten from those so far? How many of those have you been able to implement and how are they progressing?

Becky Baines  7:11  

Again, COVID has been such an issue for us. So we have lots and lots of people wanting to be engaged. We work with schools that already have eco clubs, but sadly, haven't really been able to run them. And I think so much of being an eco-club is actually young people getting together and bouncing ideas off of each other or going outside and doing something practical together. At the moment we are just waiting for September. I'm so excited for September to come when I think there's going to be an explosion of environmental understanding and passion. And I'm really really hoping that come September, we can get hundreds of new eco clubs inspired to start up.

Katherine Ann Byam  7:59  

Wonderful. And in terms of your, your spread across the UK, how far across the UK. are you now?

Becky Baines  8:06  

Oh, it's funny. I was asked this question the other day, and I realised we have ink bins in all four corners of the UK. We're not so much in Ireland at the moment, but we have them up in Glasgow and Dumfries. We have them in Abergavenny. We're on the east side. So there's lots and lots in the east-end region. And we're down as far as Devon and Cornwall as well. So everywhere which is wonderful.

Katherine Ann Byam  8:32  

And are you thinking about collaborating wider to get more into like Ireland or you know?

Becky Baines  8:39  

Absolutely, absolutely. We would absolutely love to work with anyone that we can work with completely.

Katherine Ann Byam  8:48  

And what would you say to other entrepreneurs who are starting a purpose-driven mission? So for example, I run a community of 2400. I think it grows every day with women in sustainable business who are trying to make an impact wherever they are. What would you say to them in terms of continuing this journey?

Becky Baines  9:07  

I think resilience has been a huge thing for me, but I also think believing in what you're doing is the hugest thing. Last year, June COVID, there were so many times when I sat with my head in my hands thinking, why am I carrying on with this when my poor children aren't getting me? I could be spending this time playing a board game with my children. But it was the belief that I was doing something really special that kept me going. And I also think that we're in such an exciting time with sustainability at the moment that things are moving on so rapidly. That it's not a daunting prospect to immerse yourself in it and learn and become knowledgeable very, very quickly. I'm speaking with so many people at local councils and other organisations at the moment who are only just beginning of understanding what the circular economy really is. So I would say to anybody who is interested in sustainability that it's not too late to join the party. It's an exciting time.

Katherine Ann Byam  10:26  

And I noticed that your business model involves the charity space as well. So tell me a little bit about how you're managing the financing and getting all this stuff working. Tell me a little bit about that. Because it's also interesting for a lot of people.

Becky Baines  10:40  

Yeah we are able to because certain cartridges have got some value, we're able to give money back to charities. We started this with very, very little investment, a little bit of investment from my family. And other than that, we have worked on an absolute shoestring. And I jokingly say that we've been a cottage industry, but we live in a little cottage on the edge of Essex, and there have been ink cartridges all over my house for the last two years. And I think we've been very careful with how and when we've grown, we now have a large office space. But we didn't take that on until we knew we could afford it. We're now at the stage where we can afford to take on a member of staff but we haven't run too quickly.

Katherine Ann Byam  11:30  

Yeah, that's great. And have you had support from local bodies? Have you had support from councils, for example, or other government grants? 

Becky Baines  11:40  

No. We haven't, sadly. We've been looking into it. But I'm not as of yet. We're trying to get some sizable grant opportunities and I think that is in the pipeline. But very much it's been running as a very small business and building organically. We have had interest from local councils who are wanting to buy our ink bins and gift them out to the schools. We actually have just launched with sustainable schools. Leicester who bought 14 bins from us and then gifted them to 40 schools in Leicester. And I'm hoping that will grow as well.

Katherine Ann Byam  12:21  

Okay, that's interesting. Who are the suppliers that are contributing the most to your ink recycling stock?

Becky Baines  12:41  

We work with lots and lots of groups. And the one thing that I think is quite unique about us and not the most entrepreneurial thing, but certainly the most sustainable thing that we do is we will accept any home use cartridge even if they are not profitable for us, which then actually appeals to wider groups such as Terracycle groups, and particularly environmentally friendly schools who have already maybe been down the journey and been doing in cartridge recycling for a long time, but they choose to come to us because we will accept a cartridges such as an Epson cartridge or a Brother cartridge. And we also don't provide the plastic envelopes which a lot of the more sustainable groups we work with like. So I would say one of the big groups that we've had nice success with is people passionate about plastic, people wanting to do the recycling strains. And the added bonus for them is that they can make some money for their group out of it.

Katherine Ann Byam  13:48  

Alright, I think I'm going to ask the question slightly differently because it's an interesting answer. And I might need to go back and edit my question. But when you think about Epson and Brother and stuff like that, who's the biggest contributor to that stock of recyclable cartridges? Then basically what can you do with them? So let me ask it again, right. Okay. So which company contributes the biggest stock of recyclable ink cartridges for you and have you considered working with them?

Becky Baines  14:25  

And at the moment, about 60% of what comes through are Canon and HP. About 20 to 30% of that of our overall stock are the inkjet cartridges which we can refill and give money back for. We also have an awful lot of Epson cartridges come through. And other companies such as Brother, Kodak, not quite so much. And we are working towards working with these companies. I actually have had a phone call from a couple of them over the past. As we grow, let's hope that we can work in partnership with them.

Katherine Ann Byam  15:03  

I think that would be a really good strong message as well. Getting that responsibility to look back, it's all part of the circular model anyway. 

Becky Baines  15:14  

It's an absolute joy. Yeah. And the more joined-up thinking what we can all do is for the greater good, isn't it? 

Katherine Ann Byam  15:21  

Wonderful, really good. Thank you so much, Becky. And if you have any closing words or last advice that you want to give to my listeners about either getting involved in this space or continuing?

Becky Baines  15:33  

I think the biggest thing that I'm passionate about is engaging young people. So we now have two websites, we have theinkbin.co.uk and we have theinkbinschools.co.uk. I would encourage anyone with children in their lives or young people in their lives to head over to the website and have a look at the newsletters and other resources. They're all completely free. We do it out of love rather than profiteering. And just please have a look. Contribute if you would like to and let us know your thoughts.

Katherine Ann Byam  16:04  

Wonderful. Thank you so much for joining us on the show. Thank you

025 The Eco Protection Squad

025 The Eco Protection Squad

About this Episode

Cathy Mears-Martin is an environmental activist and author of a new series of children’s books, the ECO Protection squad. After travelling in Asia in 2016, Cathy became more aware of single use waste and began to research the problems and solutions linked to it.

Cathy co-founded a company green team and started an account called sustainable ideas to share advice and guidance She is a Keep Britain Tidy Ambassador and an Environmenstrual ambassador for the women’s environmental network.

Cathy quit her job in December 2019 to focus completely on her passion for a cleaner planet. She became a recycling advisor, and began work on the Eco Protection Squad, a team of super kids helping to save Terra – Mother Earth from Bill McGreedy and his band of Eco squashers I can’t wait to get my copy – can you?

Understanding the common misconceptions about recycling different plastic waste products, the lack of education on what really the Mobius loop symbols (found in plastic products) actually mean, and add the fact that some companies even abuse this ignorance when putting out plastic packaging, Keep Britain Tidy and Plastic Free Period Ambassador, Cathy Mears-Martin knew she had to do something about it.

Cathy knew that she had to help people make simple sustainable swaps with very little impact on their lifestyle. She also created this book to educate kids and adults about the impact of plastic and other wastes we create, make people more mindful of our environment and consciously care for Terra (Mother Earth) in a fun and easy way. 

Tune in to this episode as Cathy gives us a glimpse of the Eco Protection Squad characters towards the end, what to look forward to from the Eco Protection Squad, and where you can get them. 

Subscribe to Where Ideas Launch

Episode Transcript

Katherine Ann Byam  0:02  

I can't wait to get my hands on a copy of this book. 

Cathy, welcome to where it is lunch.

Cathy Mears-Martin  0:05  

Thank you, Katherine, I'm so happy to be here. Thank you for having me.

Katherine Ann Byam  0:08  

It's wonderful to have you. So I really wanted to understand why you decided to start this project of the Eco Protection Squad. Tell us about that.

Cathy Mears-Martin  0:20  

This was a more recent thing. I started this in 2020, January 2020. But actually what led me to even getting on this journey of writing the book was back in 2016, when I suddenly became aware of plastic in my surroundings. And I happened to be in a completely different country which I was very fortunate to be in. It was in Cambodia. And I just remember being in this beautiful waterfall area and seeing some plastic bottles and some bags at the bottom of this waterfall. So I grabbed one of the bags, started putting the rubbish in and collecting it. And then also realising that there's this wicker basket that they used as a bin.

And it just started making me think more about rubbish and how it got to where it was, and what we can do about it. So when I returned back to the UK, I did a little bit of digging into our systems that we have in the UK. And realising how fortunate we are, first of all, that we have a recycling facility. And we have this process that we can use, but also how incredibly confusing it is to understand exactly what should be recycled.

 There are labels that have the Mobius loop which is the recycling symbol on everything, which people then think, "Oh, we can recycle this." But actually it comes down to what your council can even accept and what they've then got a chain to sell off to afterwards. So it's not as simple as "this item is recyclable." And that's something that ultimately I'm trying to want to help promote and working towards it does need to be a lot easier. So I knew how complicated this is by doing a bit of research.

And then I was fortunate enough to get a part-time recycling advisory role with Keep Britain Tidy where I was also meeting people who were struggling with recycling and talking to them about what they should or shouldn't put in the bins. But hearing their side of the story firsthand as well. It was just really insightful. And it just made me realise that there is education there. It's just incredibly difficult to find it. So I wanted to find a way to make that so simple for people to understand. And then together, we can all hopefully put pressure on the government and the companies to make it a lot easier for us.

Katherine Ann Byam  2:32  

Yeah, that's great because one of the things that I noticed about making my decisions about recycling is sometimes it has the Mobius loop. But it's not even saying that it is recycled. Sometimes it's actually telling you that it's not recyclable, but they have paid to be able to create this waste, right. So they've paid some kind of tax or fee to be able to create this plastic waste which is even more confusing.

Cathy Mears-Martin  2:57  

And basically, this idea behind the Mobius loop was to show that it could be recycled. And ultimately, most items can be recycled. It just depends on whether you've got the money to recycle it and whether it's even worth it. Which is why a company like Terracycle does an amazing job because they actually recycled the not commonly recycled items and turned them into new things such as park benches. But it's really not you're not recycling for life; you're degrading it as you go along. And even more complicated is plastic. There are seven different types of plastic but not everybody really knows or understands this.

So with the Mobius loop on a plastic item, it is especially if it's a hard plastic item. It might have a number inside it like a 1, 2,5, or 6 type of thing. And depending on that number denotes whether you can or can't recycle it. Now most councils can recycle plastic bottles, but they might not be able to recycle yoghurt tubs for example, even though they seem really similar. They're both hard plastics, clear trays that you get for mushrooms (not necessarily mushrooms) but fruit, or some veggie that's got that hard, clear tray. That's not recyclable everywhere either even though that's good quality plastic. So it's just, it's just incredibly complicated. And a bit mind blowing. But hopefully, I'm trying to make this really simple for people to just understand what you can and can't recycle and how we can then make it better for us moving forwards.

Katherine Ann Byam  4:23  

That's great. And tell us about the journey. So in 2020, January before any of the craziness started, you started this book. Tell us about your journey to make this book become a reality even through an incredible pandemic.

Cathy Mears-Martin  4:38  

So in hindsight, I'm not sure whether it was the right decision or not but I actually quit my job and I left. My last day was in December 2019. So knowing that I then obviously didn't have a guaranteed income, but obviously this is still pre-COVID was was exciting at the time. The reason I left my job was to pursue something that was more environmentally-friendly and I wanted to share my knowledge to a wider audience. And it was when I was chatting with my mother-in-law that we hit upon the idea of creating characters to portray certain aspects of waste, and then having them be the body team.

And then I created like this Goody team to counteract them to show people what you can do. So that started off in January, and I think my very first character, my very first two characters, were Single-Use Sally from the Eco Squashers and she's a hoot to write because she's really naughty. And Danny Do Gooder who is the team lead for the Eco Protection Squad. And he was kind of loosely based on my husband because his name was Dan so I kind of wanted to put that in the book. And he wears a cap.

Katherine Ann Byam  5:46  

It's great to tell us about these characters. Get into them for us.

Cathy Mears-Martin  5:51  

So the Eco protection squad are a team of super kids - a team of diverse super kids who are helping save Terra, Mother Earth from Bill McGreedy and his band of Eco Squashes. The Eco Protection Squads have characters such as I say the team lead Danny do-gooder. You've then got Plastic-Free Prival. She's the litter picking legend for the group. And she's also the defender of the group. You've got Recycling Romesh. He knows anything you could throw at him about recycling.

And you've got Reusable Ralph. He will always find a way to reuse an item and he is also the mischievous one from the group. So it's kind of like just - watch out in case he does something silly. Like you'll see in the book, he throws soda over his teammates to clean them off instead of using water because it was just fun. It's gonna be sticky for them but it was fun. And then the Eco Squashers. You've got Bill McGreedy who is in charge of them. He basically doesn't really care about anything.

He just wants to grow his bank accounts and make as much money as possible. And he's got characters such as Single-Use Sally, who every time she stomps her foot, she will shed plastic. And it's not just plastic. Sorry. It's any single-use item. She'll just shed it around and create extra waste. And she works really well with the toxic twins who are Gabbee Garbage and Larree Landfill. And they come around and the more rubbish that they eat, the bigger and slimier and stickier and smellier they get. And they're sort of like a duo. They'll always be seen together. But yeah, they're sort of really fun characters.

 There are more characters to be revealed in later books as well such as Turn The Tap Off Telly, and Willy Water Waste. And then you've got Energy Etsuko and Climate Change Harry. So there's always one on the good side. And there's a counteracting one on the bad side to sort of show you a way that is maybe currently happening. And a way to sort of give you tips and ideas for changes that you can make at home. That sort of means that you're being a little bit more eco-friendly, but probably not having a huge impact on your lifestyle. 

Katherine Ann Byam  7:58  

That's amazing. I love these characters. Tell us a little bit about maybe the one thing you would do differently now that you've been through this journey.

Cathy Mears-Martin  8:09  

To be honest, when I first tried to set this up, I decided that maybe I should try a crowdfunding scheme in order to help raise awareness and build up money for that. And that's because obviously, I wasn't able to work at the time. And it was a real struggle trying to get any type of job. I had to leave my flat and move home. And basically, I just wasn't able to raise the funds that I needed from crowdfunding. So instead, what I did was I actually just put it all on like a credit card.

And I'm now you know, I've taken a risk of myself. And I actually wish that I took that risk a bit earlier because there were obviously some expenses that I paid as a result of doing the crowdfunding side that I wish I could have kept and carried on doing it, just if I believed in myself a little bit sooner. So that's probably the biggest change that I would I would make,

Katherine Ann Byam  9:01  

And what was the most rewarding part of this journey for you?

Cathy Mears-Martin  9:05  

It's actually right now. I've had a couple of people join. And so every month there is a monthly mission that goes alongside what the characters are trying to achieve. And this month has been Recycling with Romesh. And it's just understanding your recycling at home a little bit better. And with these monthly missions, it's something that I'm running on social media where you can win a copy of my book and a litter picker. So I'm collaborating with a fantastic company called The Helping Hand Company and they've donated 12 litter pickers to me for this year, so one per month, which is incredible.

And it's actually just seeing a couple of people whom I don't recognise their names entering these entering their Recycling with Ramesh mission and it actually brought tears to my eyes when I saw them because it's just giving me such a buzz that people are enjoying it and that they're loving it, and the funny thing is I still haven't seen a copy of my finished printed book because I'm currently in the States. So anyone who's already received it by now has already seen it and played with it and used it more than me. Haven't seen it at all. So I've been told that the quality is excellent.

Katherine Ann Byam  10:16  

The pictures look amazing. And this book excites me really. I don't have kids, but I want to get my own copy as well. So I'm working to get that as well. So I guess my final question will be - why don't you share with the audience an excerpt from this book so that they can experience what this is like? 

Cathy Mears-Martin  10:36  

Okay. And excuse me if I do slightly different voices. I've got a section where we sort of slightly introduce Single-Use Sally. But to set the scene of the story in this very first book, Danny Do Gooder and Plastic Free Prival are going to a park to meet their friend Beth. But once they've sat there, there's more and more people that start joining in and coming and as a result, there's more and more litter that's created. So it's just sort of seeing how the Eco Squashes pop up and what happens. Okay, so are you ready?                                                                                                                             

"Before long, more and more people enter the park to enjoy the nice weather. This makes it busier, noisier and messier. Beth carries on chatting happily. But Danny is looking around. He begins to feel uneasy. Lots of people are littering. 

"Oh!" says Beth. "Did you hear they found a new frog species. How cool is that? I love those ribbiting slimy jumpers."

 "That's very cool!" says Danny distractedly. "The bins aren't full yet but a lot of rubbish is on the ground. There are drink cans, bottles, cigarette butts, wrappers, napkins, gloves, and lots and lots of masks." Danny jumps to his feet. He turns. “Prival, look around. With all this litter, we're likely to be attacked by the Eco Squashers.”

“Whoa!" Says Beth, looking around. “I don't understand where people don't put their rubbish in the bin or take it home with them, or even recycle it. The bin men will pick it up though, right?" Beth doesn't notice her napkin tugging free just as it's about to float off in the breeze. And she catches it and says "maybe, but it's not their responsibility to clean it up. We're all responsible for our own rubbish." She turns to Prival "Right?" "We need to prepare for the Eco Squashers. But before he could finish, a loud air passing cackle cut him off." And I'll end there really.

Katherine Ann Byam  12:38  

It sounds amazing Kathy. And I think you've been doing such a great job. It will be wonderful if people listening to this program can go and check you out. Tell them how they can find your book.

Cathy Mears-Martin  12:50  

Thank you so much. So you can just search ecoprotectionsquad.com. There's a specific website for them online. And they're also on Instagram at @ecoprotection.squad. And also on Facebook as well as the Eco Protection Squad. So I'm also on Twitter, actually. So you can find me through all those social media channels. But yes, just search online at www.ecoprotectionsquad.com.

Katherine Ann Byam  13:19  

Perfect. And your book is not available on Amazon. It's not available on normal channels at the moment?

Cathy Mears-Martin  13:26  

At the moment. No, that's a very conscious decision. And with the printed book, I am selling that directly at the moment or I am trying to source some independent bookshops that have the same ethics and ethos as the Eco Protection Squad. It's one of my top priorities. It's also why I chose this specific printer that I'm using as well because they're FSC approved.

They work with the Woodland Trust and they themselves actually also do litter picks, etc as well. They're called Ashley House and they've got some excellent green credentials. There is going to be an ebook. But that hasn't been released yet. And when that one gets released, there will be a version available for Kindle on Amazon and some of the other channels.

Katherine Ann Byam  14:10  

Perfect. Really great to know. Thanks Kathy so much for sharing these deep gems of gold with us. And I look forward to getting my own copy of the Eco Protection Squad very soon.

Cathy Mears-Martin  14:21  

Thank you very much Katherine. Thank you for having me.